The Star Article: Your Thoughts

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omnedon
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Postby omnedon » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:50 am

In the same vein of Playmania, there is an alarming
thrift thing happening too. A week ago (and it may still be there) the west Edmonton VV had an Atari 2600 woodgrain 4 switch in it's showcase.

Deck:
29.99
Joystick 1: 6.99
Joystick 2: 6.99
Paddles: 6.99
Combat: 4.99
Space Invaders: 4.99

NO AC adapter, no RF. that's $60.94CDN with 2
common games folks. :shock: :evil:

I hope to god none buys that. You can do better buying from a yank on Ebay, with shipping! You'd get more games
too!

...perhaps this needs a topic of it's own..

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ghsqb
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Postby ghsqb » Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:45 pm

Omnedon, I agree, lets see what the climate is
a little before we start it up, but I think thats where we're headed.

Christopher Tumber
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Postby Christopher Tumber » Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:47 pm

Crap! Crap! Crap! This lowsy PHP server just ate my post, a post that was longer than my other post!
"Illegal Session" my ass!

Here's the reader's digest version. Hopefully I can hit all the main points again.


The reason Playmania exists
is because there aren't enough place like Playmania.


As I mentioned, a strong infrastructure of professional dealers is a really, really good
thing. Professional dealers provide a reliable source of product, they stabilise prices, they provide an easy entry point for n00b's into the hobby, they
provide and easy entry point into the hobby for merchandise that's been sitting in a non collector's attic or basement.

Sure there are crap dealers.
There are also crap collectors. But crap dealers are quickly dealt with by the Darwininan forces of the marketplace. The bottom line for any dealer is they
have to make money. If they buy things that don't sell, they go out of business. If they buy things for more money than they can sell it for, they go out of
business. If they piss their customers off and their customers leave (That last part being the key - So many collectors are like addicts who keep going back
no matter how badly they're treated), they go out of business. If they out an out rip people off, they get sued and/or arrested and go out of business. If
someone else with better product and better prices opens up accross the street, they go out of business. And even more importanly to modern collectibles/used
media dealers they have to always compete with eBay. Why anyone would have anything to do with Playmania when you can buy Vars for about $20US on eBay is
beyond me.

Professional dealers come from two sources: Collectors who accumulate enough stuff and have enough interest in the hobby to want to do it
full time and "turn pro" and profiteers.

Were you under the impression that everyone in Hollywood is in it strictly for the art? Is it a bad thing
that John, Paul George and Ringo all became millionaires? Pablo Picasso was the most miserable, mercenary jerk you will ever meet, was he bad for art?


As I said, we are currently in a state of transition. We're somewhere between Pez and Comic Books. There is some awareness of the demand classic
games but there is not yet the stabilising influence of a real reseller infrastructure. So we get imbalances. Imbalances like profiteers buying $3.99 commons
at Value Village. Or imbalances like Playmania.

Myself, I go by Playmania every once in a while. I'm waiting for the inevitable going out of business
sale - Though his "bread and butter" items, used modern games, are much more reasonably priced so he may be in business a while (That is it doesn't matter
to him if the classic stuff never sells. He doesn't need to sell them to stay in business). Hmm, ya think maybe that's because there IS an existing,
stable market infrastructure for modern games? So he can't screw around with the prices like with "rare" stuff.

You want the solution to Playmania?
It's very simple. Put your money where your mouth is and open a booth. You probably have enough stuff or know enough people with extra stuff you could sell
on consignment that you wouldn't need to put any money into start-up inventory (or if you do, spend a few weeks cherry-picking eBay for stuff). And undercut
his prices like crazy.

If you don't want to take all the risk, organise everyone into a collective - What's rent going to be on an indoor spot? At
most $200 a Sunday. So get 10 collectors together. Everyone pony's up $20 a week. Everyone provides their own stock and keeps all cash their from sales.
Take turns manning the booth. Or give the person manning the booth a salary/comission if everyone doesn't want to do it. You'll also need to hammer out a
policy for trades (ie; How to divvy up when several people's inventory was involved) but otherwise should be pretty straightforeward though you might also
need a pricing policy so you're not all undercutting each other (ie: Agree that everything is priced by DP guide or higher).

Would it be worth $20 a
week to everyone (assuming worst case scenarion and nothing sells) to piss Playmania off? And then what if Microplay takes the hint and starts taking
classic games seriously - Selling and more importantly buying/trading classic games for reasonable prices? What if every Microplay in the country had a
showcase full of a couple hundred loose C's at $2 a pop? Or 2600 systems at about $40 each? And R's at DP guide type prices? What happens to Playmania
then? What happens to profiteers paying $3.99 for ET's and Pac-Mans? Or collector's who are buying ET's and Pac-Mans for $3.99 as trade-bait?

Left
alone, the presence of Playmania will only lead to more like minded profiteers to set up shop. Which is a good thing because they will promptly slit each
other throats. There is a real potential for a serious, knowledgable dealer to step in there and eat their lunch.


You don't see people cleaning
Value Village out of paperbacks for resale on eBay. The reason is that there are dozens of used book stores throughout the city. What's the point of buying
paperbacks for $2 or $3 that you can't eBay because anyone can buy the same books at any Book Market for $3 or $4? Sure you can still get the occaisional
out of print, first edition for a peanuts or some rare vinyl pressing by some obscure be-bop band for next to nothing. But you don't see the kind of
wholesale ravaging of records or books at VV or Sally Ann that you see for video games because there are better, more reliable places to buy those things
from.


The effect of profiteers is overstated anyway. So what if someone else at Stittsville starts selling common 2600 carts for $30 too. So they
don't sell either. Big deal! I'd love to see 10 dealers at Stittsville selling 2600 Mouse Traps for $33. I'll come back in 6 months when everybody's
dumping all that unsellable junk for nothing.

Ottawa and Toronto are seriously over-saturated with collectors. That's who your competition at thrifts
is. Profiteers don't buy $3.99 ET's and Pac-Man's. At least not more than once. It's other collector's who do. They buy them as potential trade-bait or
simply because they have to buy anything and everything they see. That's who's scooping you. I have no doubt that there's a collector in every major
thrift in Ottawa every single day. I know back in my heyday I was at the Cyrville Value Village 4 times a week on my way to work and then that Sally Ann in
Beacon Hill too when it opened. I used to go to the Salvation Army in the Byward Market (RIP) almost every day in the spring and summer when my girlfriend
worked in the area. I'm sure there are several collectors in Ottawa hitting thrifts just as regularly as I ever did. Profiteers are simply more visible. You
remember the guy with a $75 Genesis more than the car trunk full of bargains you DID buy. It's like psychics who count on you remembering the 2 guesses they
got right and not the 50 guesses they got wrong.



Chris...

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ghsqb
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Postby ghsqb » Thu Jul 03, 2003 1:57 pm

Chris, that was an
excellent post and one that I agree 100% with.

The end result, a hobby supported by professional dealers would absolutely be ideal.

It would
set parameters that would allow n00bs to enter the hobby, without venturing in and finding they've been taken on their first foray by the Playmanias of the
world.

Just for the record,I am 100% with you on my desire to see the hobby grow, and if it happens as you forsee, with stability and access to the
items at reasonable prices, I'd be the happiest guy around.

I also agree that the result would be the extinction of hoarders and Playmania type
operations.

You are also right that to bring this about will take leadership.

I will go on the record that I am more than willing to open a
booth and take on Playmania.

But I can't do it alone, I don't have the inventory.

If anyone feels strongly enough about this to want to
consign some stuff to make it a reality, drop me a line and lets do this.

The cost would be minimal, time, and the cost of the booth which can be
shared or arranged.

LMK if you're interested.

And Chris, again welcome!
Excellent points.

Christopher Tumber
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Postby Christopher Tumber » Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:43 pm

omnedon wrote:In the same vein of Playmania, there is an alarming thrift thing happening too.


I don't want to
call y'all alarmist, but, you do realise I've been reading this exact post for at least six years...

Sure, it possible we may SOMEDAY loose thrifts
as a source for games - Comic book, trading card and record collectors don't do a lot of their shopping in thrifts. However, that's because they have much
better places to buy things.


Chris...

Christopher Tumber
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Postby Christopher Tumber » Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:53 pm

ghsqb wrote:If anyone feels
strongly enough about this to want to consign some stuff to make it a reality, drop me a line and lets do this.


Well, I don't
keep a tonne of extra stuff around, and as I mentioned I don't do the thrifts nearly as much as I used to. But I'm sure I can come up with a decent pile of
stuff. And there's people I can mention this to. Of course I can hook you up with my homebrew stuff.

You should contact Stittsville and find out what
the skinny is. I worked at the Pickering Flea Market (RIP) about 15 years ago (ah, high school) and there was always a huge waiting list. But my impression
is that Stittsville is not nearly so busy.

You definately want to try to be in the same building but if that's not possible I don't think it matters
except I think you want to avoid the last building that's mostly a record and used book store (Tunes and Tails?).

I did sell outside at Stittsville,
once, a couple years ago. It sucked - they stuck us in a bad spot off the main walkway. So you have to be carefull or they will try to stick you with a poor
location.


Chris...

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Postby ghsqb » Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:20 pm

Well Chris, it $200/ month for an indoor booth at Stittsville, with a 4 month minimum stay, and the
waiting list is about 1 year long.

Outdoor spots, first come first served.


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